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	<title>Comments on: AT&#038;T + Apple = Bad Apple</title>
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	<link>http://noreally.iamnotgoodattheinter.net/2008/07/01/att-apple-bad-apple/</link>
	<description>It's an anagram</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://noreally.iamnotgoodattheinter.net/2008/07/01/att-apple-bad-apple/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noreally.iamnotgoodattheinter.net/?p=17#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Horatio, I think your comment is a bit disingenuous... You're rather apologist in favor of Apple, which is understandable given their reputation, but you end your comment by saying that you agree with me. There's a contradiction there. I wish you had just stuck with one side or the other.

To address your points though, it's true that the iPhone is starting to be treated like any other phone that AT&#038;T offers as opposed to some kind of messianic relic deserving special circumstances, but that doesn't make it a good deal. I think AT&#038;T screws its customers with any phone offered. The difference is that the manufacturers of those phones didn't hold a keynote address at a major technology conference and announce that their phone is now MORE AFFORDABLE*!

&lt;blockquote&gt;"This was lower compared to the required data plan for their competitor’s phone the Blackberry which is $39.99. The now current $30 for unlimited 3G data is still less than that..."&lt;/blockquote&gt;

AT&#038;T offers a handful of BlackBerry devices that have the same $30/month unlimited data price point, so your point here is kind of moot. The iPhone no longer gets special treatment.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
"...we learned almost a year ago when the first plan came out that if you complained that you didn’t have adequate EDGE coverage in your area that you could cancel that data plan. With 3G coverage being even worse than EDGE I highly expect AT&#038;T to allow their customers to opt out of the data plan after activation."
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don't really see what this has to do with iPhone specifically. I can appreciate that AT&#038;T allows a customer a way out if it turns out that they can't use the phone and data plan they paid for in its fullest capacity, but otherwise it would be like selling a boat to a guy who lives in a desert and not letting him return it when he realizes there's no place to use it...

&lt;blockquote&gt;
"Second to address the issue of the plans, if you are an existing AT&#038;T customer you can keep your voice plan and just add on an iPhone with the data plan (which potentially could be cancelled later). Not that scary after all."
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This doesn't negate anything I said in my post. All I addressed was the $30 data plan, which applies no matter what. The voice/SMS plans themselves are bad enough for a second post, but I don't want to wade into that crapfest. And it's not scary, it's frustrating.

&lt;blockquote&gt;"For some it seemed pretty obvious about what had been done, with the rumors flying around that Apple was no longer profit sharing with AT&#038;T over the course of the two year contract as they were previously doing."&lt;/blockquote&gt;

To expect that average consumer would be as knowledgeable about this situation as you or I or anyone who is so wrapped up in technology is foolish.

Here's the bottom line, no matter how you slice it: Apple misled its customer base, and I think we expect better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Horatio, I think your comment is a bit disingenuous&#8230; You&#8217;re rather apologist in favor of Apple, which is understandable given their reputation, but you end your comment by saying that you agree with me. There&#8217;s a contradiction there. I wish you had just stuck with one side or the other.</p>
<p>To address your points though, it&#8217;s true that the iPhone is starting to be treated like any other phone that AT&#038;T offers as opposed to some kind of messianic relic deserving special circumstances, but that doesn&#8217;t make it a good deal. I think AT&#038;T screws its customers with any phone offered. The difference is that the manufacturers of those phones didn&#8217;t hold a keynote address at a major technology conference and announce that their phone is now MORE AFFORDABLE*!</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;This was lower compared to the required data plan for their competitor’s phone the Blackberry which is $39.99. The now current $30 for unlimited 3G data is still less than that&#8230;&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>AT&#038;T offers a handful of BlackBerry devices that have the same $30/month unlimited data price point, so your point here is kind of moot. The iPhone no longer gets special treatment.</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8220;&#8230;we learned almost a year ago when the first plan came out that if you complained that you didn’t have adequate EDGE coverage in your area that you could cancel that data plan. With 3G coverage being even worse than EDGE I highly expect AT&#038;T to allow their customers to opt out of the data plan after activation.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t really see what this has to do with iPhone specifically. I can appreciate that AT&#038;T allows a customer a way out if it turns out that they can&#8217;t use the phone and data plan they paid for in its fullest capacity, but otherwise it would be like selling a boat to a guy who lives in a desert and not letting him return it when he realizes there&#8217;s no place to use it&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>
&#8220;Second to address the issue of the plans, if you are an existing AT&#038;T customer you can keep your voice plan and just add on an iPhone with the data plan (which potentially could be cancelled later). Not that scary after all.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t negate anything I said in my post. All I addressed was the $30 data plan, which applies no matter what. The voice/SMS plans themselves are bad enough for a second post, but I don&#8217;t want to wade into that crapfest. And it&#8217;s not scary, it&#8217;s frustrating.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;For some it seemed pretty obvious about what had been done, with the rumors flying around that Apple was no longer profit sharing with AT&#038;T over the course of the two year contract as they were previously doing.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>To expect that average consumer would be as knowledgeable about this situation as you or I or anyone who is so wrapped up in technology is foolish.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the bottom line, no matter how you slice it: Apple misled its customer base, and I think we expect better.</p>
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		<title>By: Horatio</title>
		<link>http://noreally.iamnotgoodattheinter.net/2008/07/01/att-apple-bad-apple/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Horatio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 14:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://noreally.iamnotgoodattheinter.net/?p=17#comment-5</guid>
		<description>You made a few good points lambeco, but I want to say that it isn't entirely as bad as you made it look. First off the increase in the data plan. 

When the iPhone originally came out Apple had managed to secure a lower price for unlimited data for their smart phone from AT&#38;T. This was lower compared to the required data plan for their competitor's phone the Blackberry which is $39.99. The now current $30 for unlimited 3G data is still less than that and sure it's $10 more than the old iPhone data plan but we learned almost a year ago when the first plan came out that if you complained that you didn't have adequate EDGE coverage in your area that you could cancel that data plan. With 3G coverage being even worse than EDGE I highly expect AT&#38;T to allow their customers to opt out of the data plan after activation. 

Second to address the issue of the plans, if you are an existing AT&#38;T customer you can keep your voice plan and just add on an iPhone with the data plan (which potentially could be cancelled later). Not that scary after all. 

And now about the subsidized pricing. I agree it would have been nice if Apple came up front and said the $199 and $299 prices were indeed subsidized and would only be for qualifying customers. For some it seemed pretty obvious about what had been done, with the rumors flying around that Apple was no longer profit sharing with AT&#38;T over the course of the two year contract as they were previously doing. 

If you walk into any wireless store you are barraged with free or heavily discounted phones where in the fine print they say with a two year contract. If you then walked in to that same store 2 months later and wanted to buy the newest cool flip phone they would tell you that the you wouldn't qualify for that free price and would have to pay some seemingly outrageous price. For AT&#38;T you need to have a contract for one year before you qualify for subsidized price, you can check your compatibility at www.att.com/iphone 

But in the end, even after saying all of that, I agree with you. Apple needed to get more phones out to more people and the majority of people don't look at the long term cost of things and just see that sales tag for $199 and their eyes light up! So no doubt they probably will sell a lot more phones because of that and AT&#38;T will make a lot more money as well. Some shady deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You made a few good points lambeco, but I want to say that it isn&#8217;t entirely as bad as you made it look. First off the increase in the data plan. </p>
<p>When the iPhone originally came out Apple had managed to secure a lower price for unlimited data for their smart phone from AT&amp;T. This was lower compared to the required data plan for their competitor&#8217;s phone the Blackberry which is $39.99. The now current $30 for unlimited 3G data is still less than that and sure it&#8217;s $10 more than the old iPhone data plan but we learned almost a year ago when the first plan came out that if you complained that you didn&#8217;t have adequate EDGE coverage in your area that you could cancel that data plan. With 3G coverage being even worse than EDGE I highly expect AT&amp;T to allow their customers to opt out of the data plan after activation. </p>
<p>Second to address the issue of the plans, if you are an existing AT&amp;T customer you can keep your voice plan and just add on an iPhone with the data plan (which potentially could be cancelled later). Not that scary after all. </p>
<p>And now about the subsidized pricing. I agree it would have been nice if Apple came up front and said the $199 and $299 prices were indeed subsidized and would only be for qualifying customers. For some it seemed pretty obvious about what had been done, with the rumors flying around that Apple was no longer profit sharing with AT&amp;T over the course of the two year contract as they were previously doing. </p>
<p>If you walk into any wireless store you are barraged with free or heavily discounted phones where in the fine print they say with a two year contract. If you then walked in to that same store 2 months later and wanted to buy the newest cool flip phone they would tell you that the you wouldn&#8217;t qualify for that free price and would have to pay some seemingly outrageous price. For AT&amp;T you need to have a contract for one year before you qualify for subsidized price, you can check your compatibility at <a href="http://www.att.com/iphone" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/www.att.com');" rel="nofollow">http://www.att.com/iphone</a> </p>
<p>But in the end, even after saying all of that, I agree with you. Apple needed to get more phones out to more people and the majority of people don&#8217;t look at the long term cost of things and just see that sales tag for $199 and their eyes light up! So no doubt they probably will sell a lot more phones because of that and AT&amp;T will make a lot more money as well. Some shady deal.</p>
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